Thursday, May 17, 2007

Cotton and paper, posts about t-shirts and books

Hello all, there is talk of the creation of t-shirts featuring pseuds logos, the publishing of books of our finest tappings, and other malarkey.

Post discussions here.

Also - feel free to send things to my new gmail pseuds' account:


zeph said...

For latecomers and the confused - previous discussions on these vital topics have been on the 'Floating Taproom' and 'No time for games' threads.

(Why onanistic? what's wanky about books, pray tell?)

Ebren said...

It's all about the self-love Zeph.


nesta said...

I think that on the other threads I have made my position pretty clear. However a few things to add.

Whenever I devise a business plan it needs to be revised at every step. So I suggest that we as a community focus our energies on each step then decide on the next step.

THe logos have been arriving in my mailbox reguarly. When I woke this morning there were 22 from the 8 hours I slept. Many are from shy non contributing members of our little community. That was a surprise and a delight. And shows that winning the very first pseuds T-Shirt is a prize worth winning.

Most haven't seen the logos yet because the competition ends on May 31. Before that date we as a community need to decide how to choose the winner. Sorry to the power hungry but I am all for a community project and especially transparent democracy in action at every level of society. That includes the pseuds logo comp!

I was thinking of placing all the logos on a webpage and holding a poll and the logo with the top vote wins this round. I feel no need to complicate it further at this point in time. Baby steps they call it in my green valley.

With the tyranny of distance and the time delay and confusion of asymmetric communications I suggest strongly that we keep it as simple as possible. Remember this project is less than a week old and if we as a community focus we will have a very powerful energy to manipulate.


zeph said...

It's good to know there have been logo designs from more than 'the usual suspects', Nesta.

I wouldn't call it group onanism m'self m'lud, but we have a delicate balance to strike here... there is that word 'clique'... and what was the description on GU - 'a mutually congratulatory chatroom for would-be writers?"...

So we need to keep the doors and windows open, the process transparent, and a wind of freedom blowing through... you get the idea.

I like the idea of the website and voting for the preferred design(s), if Nesta doesn't mind doing it.

guitougoal said...

oui- yes- si-o.k.-muy bien-

-business plan? thanks...

marcela said...

i'm just pinching a line from byebyebadman's commment on the pictures thread... talking about the ali photograph from above he says:

"a perspective you don't really get on tv"

i think that was/is/will always be the appeal of the blogs for me.

the banter, the discussion, the questioning of the original premis, the contribution from many viewpoints... etc.

cliques may form to make quiche, but the pub analogy - best developed on various threads around the web by bluedaddy over the past several months - is crucial to on-line communities.

focused discussions are thoughtprovoking, but off-topic chat may well be a necessary ingredient if ideas are to flow and exchanges to be non-confrontational.

if you follow old threads on GU you can see, for example, how chelseaexile and siroliverreed first overcome their differences - the narrative of a whole thread is a script, a conversation, a video, an essay and a cultural slice of anything from foodstuffs to music. from all over the world, from all sorts of people :)

not every thread is like that, of course, and the difficulty with a book is how to transport the essence of the blog to a form so different. i know this, because i have been in discussions with two publishers over the last six months trying to get to grips with how best a book would work. i have faith, but publishing business plans seem harder to persuade. :(

the amazing thing about this form, though, is that it is all about writing. people talk about 'conversation' and 'chatrooms' but the whole point is that it is all written. and that's why i think book publishers should take stock.

the t-shirts, i like.

i would like to put forth byebyebadman's line as a slogan:
"a perspective you don't really get on tv"

where tv could be 'newspapers', 'old media' or even 'anywhere else'.

hope byebyebadman doesn't mind.

personally, i would only really wear one that said "bring back pakalolo, legalize greengrass", which incidentally is also lifted from a CiF thread but modified [the original campaign is "bring back cannabis, legaize khartoumi" - a banned user]

hope readers who don't post regularly say hello sometime, if they want to. :)

Zeph said...

Good thoughts, Marcela.

One more thing - we all take this for granted, but this is a site for writing about sport. Should the slogan/logo explain that or doesn't it matter?

guitougoal said...

Zeph, and Nesta-
I agree with you, about Nesta's idea of a website and a vote. This is the best way to get a fair and final decision.
Word of caution: I am not crazy about the word competition because this is not about the best design
it is more about developing a TEE reflecting PSEUDS
image or identity at its best- -but in my view to achieve it, a work in progress will get better results than a competition.
as far as I am concerned any design sent so far were not final , just ideas, suggestions for comments and that why I did send to everyone a copy....

nesta said...


I hadn't seen the phrase 'a mutually congratulatory chatroom for would-be writers?'

If that is a sledge it is a poor one.

It's like being bashed over the head with a flower petal.

The thread following the article I wrote yesterday contains more ideas and critical respectful arguments than I've read on a month of GU blogs. It was mature and intelligent. And for this simple soul too much to handle in one sitting.

As for the wannabe jibe. If you write you are by definition a writer.

And showing encouragement to others is class. Thinly veiled criticism - which I saw all too often on the GU blogs, by bloggers and authors - is cowardice.

As far as I know everyone is welcome here. The doors are open. Like every establishment be it physical or not it doesn't cater for everyone's taste.

I never considered writing anything until I found myself here. A couple of months back. The encouragement that I received from the other writers - and there are some very talented people here, just look at today's lead story by File - led me to enter my first short story competition and I surprisingly won.

All the people who commented on the Woodcutters Revolution deserve a big thankyou for they are partly responsible for my success.

And I'll do the website for the poll but I think Ebren would like to control it.

And as for onanism. THis is what my dictionary says;
1.withdrawal of the penis in sexual intercourse so that ejaculation takes place outside the vagina; coitus interruptus.

That isn't what usually comes to mind when I think of community projects.

And on the logo I think gui has the right idea but we do need to collectively and democratically narrow down the field. I have faith in gui to produce something fab and I thought a T-Shirt with the word PSEUDSCORNER or THE CORNER or just plain old PSEUDS and the web address are important.
How it looks and what other images and slogans it has is complicating the process at this point. THere is in my opinion no need to hurry.
I guess if we have a winner they can work with our fabulous French LA fashion designer to nut out the final product.

Maybe we need a slogan competitin as well? What do the masses think?

marcela said...

nesta, i just read what you posted elsewhere about small books in a small print run.

this thought came up:

there is a community project in argentina called 'Pelota de Trapo'. it started a long time ago to give street kids a chance at a dignified life. They run a small bakery first, then expanded and expanded and one of the things they do now is ... a printing business!

There is already a generation of adults who were brought up in the Pelota de Trapo project. Pelota de Trapo literally means ball made of rags.

If we took our business to a printers such as these, i would be proud to partake :)

MotM said...

I always say that Elvis Presley's voice is so beautiful a thing that I would listen to him reading the telephone directory.

The nine comments so far show that pseuds' writers are so talented that they are worth reading discussing business plans.

Nesta - will you post the short-story, or, if it's not right for Pseuds, a link for us to read it please? And congrats!

mimi said...

Writing for the Hopeman massive - if you know what I mean - I think there are some good thoughts coming through here. First comment is that I agree with Zeph: hate this space's title. Nothing wanky about books, or indeed about what we're trying to do. As one of the minority of female voices in the Taproom, there are times when the testosterone rages a bit!
If Nesta can do a website where we can dump designs and vote, then that's a really constructive start to the project.
I also agree with guitou: not a competition, just something that we feel represents us as a group of refuseniks.
I love Nesta's image of being sledged by GU as being bashed over the head by a flower petal, but, and sorry to ring a bell of warning, this is still a very public forum. Just because only a handful, admittedly a large handful, but still just a minority, choose to write and contribute here, this is NOT a private space.
I have friends who read but don't choose to contribute. We must be wary not only of becoming a clique, but also of thinking that when we use this place to talk, we talk in private. We don't.

guitougoal said...

I'll try my best to take all suggestions in consideration, it is not easy when so many people make sense....
Nesta where have you been when i needed you?
thanks for the help.I 'll send something next...

nesta said...


We have similar small printers where I live. The population is too small for big ones. One of the advantages of living in a mostly self sufficient community. Also because this is a global project currency prices may play a part in the final decision. So that would cancel out big greedy corporate nations in my opinion.

I'm certain we can do this - produce an almanac - and after discussion and contemplation I think we should give our business to a company or collective who would benefit most from our wanky project.

And Mouth it is basically the Woodcutters Revolution reworked. I have your email and I will send it to you tomorrow. I will soon, I am assured receive a cash prize (new stereo for the Kombi)and now have an invitation to a larger national competition in which the winner is promised a larger cash prize and more opportunity. I am off to the South West Coast on the weekend to research the next story and I must admit I'm having fun. It is run by a publishing house and I will send some details about that with my story.

So Psueds has enabled me to enhance my driving experience. Who would have imagined that?

And mimi, a clique. Perhaps. In the taproom. But everyone is welcome. I have re-read yeasterday's 'No time for games' thread and I saw no sign of a clique. Hot topics that could not be dismissed lightly and at times were uncomfortable to digest, yes but no sign I think of a clique. Everyone with something to say is welcome to join the clique if they choose but isn't my cricket team a clique also? And how many people need to feel welcome before we are no longer a clique?

And gui I'm around now and if I can be of any assistance in any way you have my address, brother.

Ebren said...

Everyone is right, there is nothing wanky about books.

I entitled the page thusly as a pre-emptive strike against those who would criticise us for self congratulation - so I ratched up self congratulation to self love then picked a particularly wanky word for masturbation to bulletproof us against criticism.

But, thinking about it now, there is nothing a-priori bad about wanking.

There is, however, something bad about being embarassed about it, repressing it, hiding it, and never mentioning something almost everyone does. Loving yourself is, after all, the first step to loving others.

And times have moved on from the days when the Rev Edward Thring popularised athleticism (particualrly cricket - and then later football and rugby) as a way to keep boys "pure" and protect them from "self abuse".

So, I think if modern sport was created as an effort to supress satan's solipsistic love, then it is entrirely appropriate for me to supress the word itself to promote a book about athletic endeavours.

Consider it gone.

byebyebadman said...

With my publishing head in I'll throw a couple of things into the ring about the idea for the book - you could always try and go down the POD (Print on demand) route rather than chain yourself to a print run and hope you make the money back.

For what it's worth I'd love to see this develop into some kind of journal, maybe published twice a year? Even if it attracted just a couple of hundred subscribers (I've worked on ones with less) it would be so rewarding. You guys would have a better idea than me if it would have any legs in it though.

Commissioning editors are often very idealistic folk trapped in financial strait-jackets. Belief is the key, if we could transmit that as well as it has come across on several blogs about this it could be infectious.

guitougoal said...


Your logic is obvious.
I don't think power hungry was ever a concern on this blog and I hope he never will, the most qualified writters have contributed without any personal agenda,just sharing with others some of their views and we all enjoyed their participation. Ebren the creator and operator of the site had left the flow of ideas run the course.It works.
As far as the tee-shirts thing, you are right, there is no need for rush,your participation as leading and organizing the process is very welcome and would be appreciated by everyone.
As for my contibution, i like to make it clear, my
participation is not competitive, I am sending a bunch of graphics as they come to my mind to start the process-and if there is some good idea to facilitate this process so be it-If I had in mind to enter into the competion I wouldn't be sending so many but just one- and believe me it wouldn't be picked!I am not L.A fashion designer,no, i am just guitougoal at pseuds' service-

guitougoal said...

Nes,The competition is great, but , the only reservation ,I do have, does the winner proposition, even we reach a consensus, will reflect the community's feeling if he worked solo?
your thoughts please.

mimi said...

i like very much byebye's idea of a journal.I know where he's coming from.
Guitou: glad you are comfortable with the whole non-competive issue. I probably misunderstood the idea of it being a competition - which I did think you propagated. So sad sucks to mimi for being such a fool then.
But I do re-iterate my previous comments a) if we exchange exciting commercial ideas here, bear in mind that the world watches
b) some people read our posts and comments and think we are too cliquey and so don't join in.
I leave you with these thoughts ...

DoctorShoot said...

Print on demand is such a goer but currently limited to a particular style of linear presentation.

I think the genius in ebren's little coup is that off topic discussion and fun are the real meat of serious philosophical discourse which arises from contemplatiuon of sporting matters, and where the blue stocking or the red handkerchief may be glimpsed amid the grimaces and guffaws.

Thus I would propose using Marcela's rags-to-reality tribe to publish hard copy articles accompanied by cds of the commentary contributions.

editorial introduction / preface could hint at where the jewells are hid amongst the trampling feet.

CLOTHING: a variety of say four t-shirt options with a pseud's brand might be the way to go...

MEDICATION: Zeph what's today's cocktail? and poem pls...

offside said...

I'm useless at business, so don't listen to anything I have to say on the subject. In fact, I think I will refrain, that will save you the trouble of disregarding it.

I do like the idea of several t-shirts with different designs, colours, quotes, etc... I have no idea whether this is practical or not.

Today's cocktail is the "Wet Tee-shirt":

1/2 oz Bailey's® Irish cream
1/2 oz butterscotch schnapps
Grapefruit twist

OK, it's a Slippery Nipple with a twist, but you get the idea.

byebyebadman said...

Forgot to mention previously that no, of course I don't mind that line being put forth as a slogan.

mimi said...

offside: you don't have to tell us you're useless at business - you're living in Tahiti for f's sake!

DoctorShoot said...

which line?
"Commissioning editors are often very idealistic folk trapped in financial strait-jackets"
"Belief is the key"

guitougoal said...

i'm useless for business
living in a little ness
I am offside in Tahiti
what's wrong with that mimi
may I have a tropic-tee guitou?
I like islands, coconuts and canoe
nesta may wants one too
so please gui make it two.

guitougoal said...

mimi says:
I am mimi living by the sea
nothing wrong with that you see
but if you could do some business
offy i'll be glad to visit your ness

DoctorShoot said...

not up to zephs mark mind you and not tahiti, but pacific enough to be washed up in a bottle..:)

alcahol is cheap, though not free here
on this green volcanic spot
where i watch, through sparkling amber beer,
each evening sun fade like a running cat's dot

nor is the t shirt industry vibrant
amongst our tiny island flock,
though a flashy onanistic psued's corner brand
would likely produce the required culture shock

required to lift enquiry
from mumbling brows
of surfers in pacific azure waters
as to what inspired kind of prows (pronounced locally as 'prose')
could spark such adornment for their sons and daughters.

this assumes of course an accompanying tome
to explain that worldly voice,
which is filed daily as the sporting bloggers roam
through gilded topics of their choice

and so as litererary revolution breathes
at last again from gu's moderation spats,
one is relieved to witness with what ease
free speech runs loose like one more feral ship's cat.

Footnote in author's own handwriting...(though of course we shoot them on sight as part of protecting the existing environment and....)

BlueinBetis said...


I'd be happy to have the original articles, plus comments chosen by the author...could be a maximum number of lines..or whatever, obviously the authors of the comments (where possible) would have to agree to any chopping/cropping.


We will need more than one colour.

I will never wear red. It's childish I know, but then again, so are Arsenal, Liverpool and United.

Just my two penneth. Been away for a while becuase I'm not smoking anymore, and sitting and not smoking for long periods is once again becoming possible.

To all Pseuds.

There's not a Shakespeare sonnet,
Nor a Beethoven quartet,
That's easier to like than you -
Or harder to forget.

You think that sounds extravagant?
I haven't finished yet.
I like you more, than I would like
to have a cigarette.

Wendy Cope, A beautiful mind!

(I'm not Wendy)

zeph said...

That was pretty impressive, Doc.

Compliments on my 'poem' are delightful but a bit undeserved since at least half of it was written by Loesser!

Book: I like the idea of the author of the piece choosing from the comments. In some case, like the current Zimbabwe thread, you'd need pretty much the whole debate, but that's fine.

marcela said...

It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.
Harry S Truman

BTW - i don't think it HAS to be pelota de trapo who does the printing. but we should seek out community projects such as that one. makes sense.

and byebyebadmanc - journal. periodical. check out hard gras and perfect pitch. more on both later if anyone feels its relevant, but too late for me now.

file said...

so I slept through all this and nobody nudged me huh? At least you didn't shave my rabbit this time

there are so many possibilities outlined here that there should be a first step and we all know that fools rush in where cherubs fear to tread .../ever the activist

if y'all want me to I'll put all the t-shirt design ideas in a gallery so we can look, discuss, choose, organize this aspect of these grand plans

send jpeg's to

nesta, if you pass on your archives I'll post them all

ebren, nesta, all, of course this is an offer only, if you feel that you want different avenues then I'll support those happily instead, just wanted to put some cognac in the coffee

generally there are some sweet points from so many people above, almost too many, perhaps it may help to clarify discussions by catagorizing the issues:

* hard copy publishing
* web publishing options
* t-shirts
* international delivery options
* IP + copyright
* finances

may be included but these are just my ideas, perhaps the list might define focus threads and perhaps these focus threads start by agreeing on targets ...

and all the time keeping up the standard of excellent articles and discussion we are achieving

for the content, I think that it would be great to include edited threads and also highlights of the off-topic-taprooms too, maybe even a blossary of terms, history of the tapir ...

merci mille fois a tous le monde de pseuds'

and silent partners? shrinking violets or snakes in the green grass?

nesta said...


I am more than happy to pass them on. I'll send 'em later once I'm home, watered and fed. That would be early next week at the current rate of progress. Cheers.

file said...

ok nesta, if anyone wants to send art direct:

and I'll install it


byebyebadman said...

Perfect Pitch I think was every six months wasn't it? I do have 1, 2 and 4, after which I don't know of any more that were published. Which reminds me I must by 3 at some point.

There's nothing to stop PC being a one-off anthology - one of my favourite football books is Le Foot, an anthology of writing on French football with some excellent contributions. It only really covers 1976 onwards though, so nothing on Kopa, Fontaine, Gabriel Hanot, Jules Rimet etc.

The journal/periodical idea - there are several examples of online only subscriptions and the like. The difficulty of transferring blog content into print format in a book has already been mentioned, perhaps this would be a natural home for this project? Just a thought.

Time for a strong cup of coffee - pre-Cup final jitters are kicking in and there are still 27 hours to kick-off.

Zeph said...

And Yet The Books
by Czeslaw Milosz

And yet the books will be there on the shelves, separate beings,
That appeared once, still wet
As shining chestnuts under a tree in autumn,
And, touched, coddled, began to live
In spite of fires on the horizon, castles blown up,
Tribes on the march, planets in motion.
"We are," they said, even as their pages
Were being torn out, or a buzzing flame
Licked away their letters. So much more durable
Than we are, whose frail warmth
Cools down with memory, disperses, perishes.

I imagine the earth when I am no more:
Nothing happens, no loss, it's still a strange pageant,
Women's dresses, dewy lilacs, a song in the valley.
Yet the books will be there on the shelves, well born,
Derived from people, but also from radiance, heights.

Good, huh?

marcela said...

zeph... no-one quotes poets quite like you :)

badmanc - there were no more after Perfect Picth 4. WhSmith bought Hodder and with sales barely scraping 7000 the title died the death. I can send you vol. 3 with my compliments if you post contact details.

the reason i mentioned it is because, based on the hard gras model, the idea was similar to pseuds in spirit - IMHO.

Hard gras is a dutch journal which has been going strong for a long time, but unlike Perfect Pitch they have had the nouse to secure sponsorship. They started with a huge tick ont he back cover, but now have changed both sponsors and publishers. It regularly makes best seller charts and is absolutely fantastic (i am told, as i don't read dutch!) including poetru, cartoons, essays, interviews, etc. - only about football.

before we gave up on perfect pitch we toyed with the idea of being sponsored.

I think pseuds is the new generation - but the problem with printing on paper is the expense v. the potential recouping. i don't know anyone who doesn't praise perfect pitch for content, innovation and good intention.

as i say - not enough to keep it alive in commercial reality.

perhaps the calendar, or a one off publication in a small print run, make more sense from that point of view. after all, it is the on-lineness that is the real appeal.

byebyebadman said...

marcela - thank you very much, very kind of you. If you could e-mail me I'll send you my address.

I have heard of Hard Gras - Hugo Borst writes for them I think, he wrote 'Marco's Room' in the original Perfect Pitch which is my favourite piece in the whole series (so far, there could be something mindblowing in 3 of course).

Agree about the on-lineness aspect of Pseud's Corner - I feel you would lose the essence of the interaction amongst posters, lots of which are spontaneous responses of people online at the same time, if it were in book format.

mimi said...

file: I like your categorisations - this would help keep minds focussed. I'm really rushed this afternoon and can't go through all these posts in detail but, not being too school-mistressy, it does seem as though there's a bit of off-topicking and it's not that easy to pick out the meat of the suggestions and ideas.
Back later.

mimi said...

Has anyone else noticed how often psueds is written rather than pseuds? I've done it loads of times and noticed others too. Whether the others do it in a deep and ironical way (or taking the piss out of my typos) I don't know, but I find it's just the natural way for my fingers to type the word.
I throw that out for thoughts.

BlueinBetis said...

I noticed that Mimi!

Took me ages to find the page at work due to the peculiarity of the spelling.

zeph said...

And of course it could also be Pseud Scorner. But I digress..

DoctorShoot said...

I actually prefer the name Psuds corner which not only fits with my own spelling dyslexywhatever,
but also allows for washday punpersonship in the realms of 'falsely caught up in the...' and 'cleaner by far' and 'mouth out with soap' etc leading to 'put through the wringer' and 'hung out to dry' etc etc...
or am I just rambling again??

marcela said...

spuds corner?

yeah... why not.

mimi said...

There's been much chat and now the t-shirt debate is over in the Gallery, so anyone up for discussing what sort of printed Pseuds we are looking for?
Who wants what, is it a commercial thing, is it a journal? An on-line subscription?
Thoughts and ideas please. And focus.

DoctorShoot said...

psuds corner, psuds scenes, and the soon to be born psuds taproom with columns and collonades leading to the spa room and community baths with steam room, cocktail and massage staff, and the leather couches with internet terminals.
Its all so much to keep up with. however it leads me to contemplate the coffee table book approach resplendent with photo essays and CDs of bloggers comments. produced of course by marcelas rags to reality third world team and marketed by collective efforts of the bloggers. I will throw in some cash if required

Zeph said...

I'm wary of a quarterly journal. They mostly seem to die after four issues anyway, and I feel it would impose a structure which we don't necessarily need or want.

I'd like to see an annual book of the best of Pseuds' to appear at Christmas/end of the year. It would be a record of the year's sporting events as well as free-standing pieces. Ideally I'd like it to be a paperback book, but if that's too expensive to produce we could always do something in pdf that Pseuds could print and have bound for themselves and their friends.

Them's my views.

mimi said...

doc/zeph: nice to have your constructive ideas rolling in. Need more from the rest of the troops. Also, ebren: how easy is it to turn our web pages and the comments into something printable?
Help please before I can get serious on any kind of production control plan.

byebyebadman said...

A point about the web pages, one of the beauties of them is you can scroll right through the entire thread rather than flick back and forth through endless pages. How big would a printed blog with 400 posts attached be in book format? It's a hefty amount of material, and if you're cross-referencing posts...just a thought, but blogs/blogging are so popular because of the format they're in at the moment, so maybe it suits electronic publication more? However if all you're after is a printed record of what's been said/done I don't suppose that would matter.

I've seen a fair few publications recently that have had chapters on blogging and the examples they have used were transcribed from the web rather than converted (if that's the right word), although they weren't huge. I have no idea how easy it would be to convert web pages into print format but I will ask those in the know.

Hope everyone's having a nice day - not a cloud in the glorious blue sky over me...

zeph said...

Well, byebye, I've just copied this entire thread into a Word document to see what happens, and it comes to 15 pages!
However, I think the general idea is to reprint the articles and then only a selected number of posts.

But it copies over perfectly and I assume printers can work from Word or similar.

byebyebadman said...

Nice pioneering work zeph!

I didn't realise the idea was selected posts...however many posts are not as a direct result of the blog but reactions to/tangents off other posts, and they would need a bit of context. Just a thought.

Still two hours of work to do (groan), and the tranquil evening is mocking me out of the window...

zeph said...

My suggestion is that Pseuds should each edit the threads from the articles they wrote, and should also decide which of their pieces they wouldn't want included - I think we're all honest enough to know which bits didn't work so well.

Then all we'd need is to put them all together and tidy up any typos etc.

greengrass said...

Oh, Marcela,
How you make a fella

Tweet it, digg it