Wednesday, December 5, 2007

Third Person Singular? - Zephirine

Recently, our good friend Marcela Mora y Araujo drew attention to Juan Roman Riquelme’s habit of referring to himself in the third person: "I like to think it's been a good year for Riquelme." Marcela also commented: “Diego Maradona consistently uses ‘Maradona’ in his speech, and over years of careful analysis I feel confident formulating the following hypothesis: ‘Maradona’ is used when discussing the media construct, the celebrity - e.g. 'Maradona should not be held as an example to anybody' - and ‘I’ enters the discourse when the narrative truly is in the first person; when he is talking about playing football, for instance, he says ‘I’. Anyone feels like funding me? I'll do a PhD on the topic.”

In eager anticipation of Marcela’s PhD, here are a few more thoughts on this phenomenon, and no doubt Pseuds will have their own to add...

This odd use of language has appeared among cricketers too: during the disastrous 2006 Ashes season, England’s captain Michael Vaughan, sidelined through injury, began talking about himself as Michael Vaughan and was roundly mocked on the threads for his apparent swollen ego and detachment from reality. Interestingly, the speech pattern seems to have disappeared with Vaughan’s return to health and form – is he now in a more normal psychological state, or did his wife/PR person read the cricket blogs and tell him to stop it?

By far the most unsettling of these strange verbal usages in the cricket world was that adopted by GU journalist Rob Smyth, who spent an entire over-by-over commentary referring to himself as Daddy – a genuinely creepy gimmick which probably got him a record number of emails. Mr Smyth, however, is no longer with GU.

This is the thing about the third-person trick: other people don’t like it. It bothers them. They think the person concerned is nuts or conceited or both. Or else it’s a bit of a joke: “It’s all about entertainment,” says Floyd Mayweather, “and that’s what Floyd Mayweather brings to the table.” And the effect seems to be the same in most languages. It’s not that you can’t use another word instead of ‘I’ - ‘one’ or its equivalent is used as a substitute in various languages, and in some languages you can refer to yourself as ‘he’ or ‘she’. No, it’s the use of the name which provokes a reaction.

So why do they do it?

Perhaps it’s an unconscious expression of the psychological tricks required to deal with the stress of competing and performing at a high level, or, in the case of Maradona, being a legend and not having lived anything approaching a normal life for many years.

Some degree of disassociation is probably encouraged by sports psychologists as a mechanism to make it easier to deal with media hype. When the tabloids and pundits are alternately describing someone as a genius and a total loser, it must be a lot easier to take if that someone isn’t you...or isn’t quite you.

Detachment must also be needed to deal with defeat or inexplicable loss of form. Suddenly the skills have deserted you – is it your fault? What have you done? Have you annoyed God? Were you rubbish all along, but a kind of collective hallucination prevented anybody from noticing? No, no, it’s just a thing that’s happening to a different part of you, an other you, and your inner self isn’t personally responsible.

There’s also the pressure on successful sportspeople to see themselves as brands – the company that pays, for example, Jonny Wilkinson to advertise its range of classic men’s clothing is buying a set of attributes which are connected with him in the public mind, and in turn encouraging him to see himself as a marketable entity which really has those characteristics “modest, taciturn, English hero”. While supping on his diet of egg-whites and boiled chicken, does Jonny look at those adverts and think “That’s me” or “That’s ‘Jonny Wilkinson’ ”?

Athletes have no disguise, whatever luridly-coloured and/or skimpy kit they compete in; they aren’t playing a role on screen with the help of make-up, camera angles and computer effects, or blogging behind the safety of a pseudonym. But, aided by the media and its own prejudices, the public will see its own version of them. How can they distinguish between the person the public sees and the person they feel themselves to be? Andrew ‘Freddie’ Flintoff is clear that Freddie is the cricketer and celebrity while Andrew is the family man – and it seems that sometimes when Freddie goes out and leaves Andrew at home, he gets into trouble.

Robbie Williams has said that the ‘Robbie Williams’ who appears on stage is his evil twin. Many sportspeople experience ‘white line rage’ – as they step out onto the pitch they take on a persona which is more aggressive, more provocative, more reckless than the everyday one. It’s not just about being pumped up and adrenalised, it’s being taken over by a more vivid and dangerous version of yourself. To succeed at the highest level, that persona has to be encouraged, fed, trained, nurtured, taking over like a cuckoo in a nest. It’s not surprising if the anxious parent bird sometimes feels disconnected from the monster.

Nuts? Conceited? Demonically possessed? Or just trying to cope with it all? What do you think?

113 comments:

Ebren said...

To excel, really excel at a single thing you either need to be a genius, or dangerously obsessive, or both.

David Beckham has admitted to obsessive compulsive disorder.

Ebren thinks that others might have schizophrenia. I mean, what kind of crazy fool refers to themselves, or has multiple personalities with different names?

fourturntables said...

Quite right Lord Eb! Loonies, the lot of them.

theoceanintahiti says said...

swoooooooooshgrumblegrumblegrumble

guitougoal said...

I cry he cries, I work he works, I play he plays, he is getting on my nerves-

Zeph's helpful twin said...

That link might not be working - here it is again: Marcela's Riquelme article

piaget greengrass said...

Dear Ms. Zepherine,

Greengrass was one of those posters who commented on that football player's third-person disturbance.

The discussion which ensued was very interesting, and the department of archeolinguistics so competently headed by Greengrass is sparing no effort in attempting to create a pair of fellowships* for Ms. M y A.

Having spent some years as a performing artist, Greengrass is not, on reflection, surprised at this phenomenon. Our fans tend to
endow us with personae far removed from reality, imagining that we drink copious amounts of alcohol,
smoke dubious substances and are devoured by hordes of lascivious,
youthful members of the opposite sex.

Considering the above, it is by no means surprising that a certain alienation arises between our first and third persons - a kind of benign artistic schizophrenia.

Though booting a ball around a meadow can hardly be regarded as one of the performing arts, I imagine that those chappies with the unusual names are stricken with similar maladies.

*If Ms. M y A is a militant feminist, we will attempt to devise a gender-neutral term for these posts.

guitougoal said...

illustrissime professor piaget,
there is a tinge of narcissism in this third-person erratic behavior.People do that to stage themselves
as they seem to want to stand apart.One of the advantage to describe yourself as another is to experience a new form of ego trip,a piece in a larger scheme of transformation no to be devoured by your fans from the opposite sex.

guitougoal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
marcela said...

of course, he who could best express some of the mechanisms of mind which might be at work here is neither riquelme, nor maradona, nor indeed i myself

:)

Zephirine said...

That's completely brilliant, Marcela.

offsideintahiti said...

Oh, OK, it's an Argentine disease, then.

grumblegrumble

Zephirine said...

It seems to strike in all quarters of the globe, Offside:)

Prof Greengrass, I'm naturally aware of the fine work you're doing and sincerely hope you can find funding for a personship or two for Ms MMA.

Alienation is a good word, I forgot to use it in the article, damn.

andrewm said...

I haven't thought this through - when do I ever? - but it's always struck me as an aggressive move, especially from boxers (obviously). A way of dominating people, if you like.

If you're established, your name means something to people, it represents certain qualities and achievements. When Floyd Mayweather talks about "Floyd Mayweather" he's talking about the best boxer in the world, and that's what you think of when you see or hear the name. By using "Floyd Mayweather" rather than "I" he's reinforcing all the achievement and sporting excellence that you associate with the name.

I suppose it ties in with the idea of sportspeople being brands. For better or worse, the name means something, and the more you repeat it the more that thing is reinforced in the public mind. If you know you're the best and everyone else knows it too, I think repeating the name can have a strong psychological effect.

Ah well, it makes sense to me anyway ...

Zephirine said...

I think you're quite right, Andrew, there's an element of 'remember the name' especially in boxing, and that's why people in other sports are suspicious/scornful about it.

Some people see it as a symptom of a wider malaise though (ah, those wider malaises, they do get everywhere) - here's a very serious but interesting article about detachment from the self in teenagers.

byebyebadman said...

When Gareth Southgate was on a serial whinge last season about Ronaldo being fouled for a penalty yet apparently diving ('we don't do that in this country' - Owen, Gerrard, Rooney, Joe Cole, Lineker etc) the young lad in question came out to defend himself and said 'For me it's a penalty, but with Cristiano and Middlesborough it's always polemic'.

I've always thought about footballers that when they do this they mean the player, and they are speaking as the person, and they use it as a mechanism to separate their professional life from their personal one.

the thing that really struck me about his statement was wondering in which of his english lessons he was taught the word polemic. Presumably not the same one where he learned to ask the way to the town centre.

offsideintahiti said...

Un Borge, dos Borges... I never realised it was in the plural.

mimi said...

Glad to see this up here Zeph. It raises many questions. I was disturbed by Michael Vaughan's use of Michael Vaughan in 2005 but it is fair to say that he's not doing it any more.
In motorsport there is not so much the use of the third person but the first person plural. Which although recognising there is a team effort, it is odd to hear eg Casey Stoner talking about how we had a good win. One man, one bike out on the track.

MotM said...

There's no i in team? Ouch!!

mimi said...

Ouch indeed Mr Mouth. Ouch ouch and more ouch really!

offsideintahiti said...

mais il y a un i dans "équipe".

mimi said...

I thought L'Equipe was banned on Pseuds.

offside's evil twin said...

Really? Oh, good. Here's the link then:

http://www.lequipe.fr/

mimi said...

Splendid: only the third lead story before we get to cyclism and le dopage!
L'Equipe never fails to deliver.

guitougoal said...

Zeph,
Thank you for giving the other self an opportunity
to express himself.
he thinks it's convenient to be two instead of one but like Jorge he doesn't know which one is hallucinating on this tread.He also wonders which one is going to die first.

mimi said...

Guitou: the one who spends too much time on the treadmill perchance?

guitougoal said...

oh gosh mimi,I forgot this one.Holly Molly! now i realize, we are three like Trinity.

offsideintahiti said...

In the name of Guy, Guitou and Guitougoal, bring us our daily pakalolo...

guitougoal said...

should he bring it to offie,orsay or offside?

orside said...

Just put it down on the bar, we'll help ourselves.

file said...

Holly Molly indeed Guitou! lol!

really enjoyed this piece Zephish, thanks and fine thread all, a comprehensive examination

here Thais very often use 3P but then they have 3 names (nickname, name, social marker) which interchange freely, nobody seems to know for sure who's being referred to but then it doesn't seem to matter!

bbb, didn't Ronaldo study Polemic Winking at the Sorbonne, or was it Non-Didactic Dribbling (Antistrophic Rhetoric, the dialectics of diving)?

file said...

...now he just reads Gorbal Homiletics

gg said...

File -

lovely to see you on here in your pink lycra t-shirt!

I was thinking about you the other day, wondering if you would survive the Thaiorama celebrating Bumiballs.

I assume that the third person transvestite is common in Thailand, in which a bloke refers to himself as "she" when in bars frequented by
fat, aged "faring".

offsideintahiti said...

farang, please. It is derived from français, after all.

Yes, file returns on Burmeseballs' birthday, hmmmm, strange or what?

gg said...

offy -

perhaps!

Here is an essay which Ingrid claims to have written during her final year at the Department of Archeolinguistics:

The most likely theory of the word's origin derives it from farangset, the Thai pronunciation of français, the French word for 'French' or 'Frenchman'. France was one of the first European nations to establish cultural ties with Thailand in the 17th century, so to Thais at that time, 'white man' and 'Frenchman' were synonymous. However, the Portuguese, Dutch and others arrived long before the French, which makes that origin unlikely. A few others have suggested that in the Ayutthaya period, land was given to the Portuguese merchants to conduct their business at "Baan Farang" (Guava Village).

A more common etymology which explains why many other Southern Asian and Southeast Asian languages use the word, has to do with the French but in a more indirect way, saying it derives from the earlier Persian word farangi, which refers to foreigners. This in turn comes from the word "frank" via the Arabic word firinjia, which was used refer to the Franks (French) in the Middle Ages. The French were later the first European nation that helped the Ghajar Kings modernize the Iranian government, in particular with the establishment of customs, in Persian: gomrok. Long before English, and until about the 1960s, French was the foreign language of choice for educated Iranians. The abundance of French words in the Persian language attests to this fact.

By another account the word comes through Arabic ("Afrandj"), and there are quite a few articles about this. One of the most detailed treatments of the subject is by Rashid al-din Fazl Allâh[1].

Farang is closely related to the Khmer word Barang.

In Tamil, the word that refers to Europeans (most specifically to the British) is parangiar, presumably because Tamil does not have the "F" sound. Many South Asian and Southeast Asian languages, including Hindi-Urdu and Malay, also use this word to denote foreigners.

offsideintahiti said...

Frankly (farangly?), I wonder why Ingrid is still not Head of the Department of Archeolinguistic instead of that Piaget fossil.

file said...

caps off to Ingrid, that's a seminal piece if ever I saw one!

in light of all that debugged etymology is there any significance to the Guava bearing exactly the same spelling and phonetics (i.e. Farang with the pis-pronounced r as l)in Thai?

and if a Frenchman refers to himself as a Farang is he then using the 3rd Person Archetypal?

file said...

btw, 5/11 is also Fathers Day here and I take whatever slight advantage I can of a free reign!

offsideintahiti said...

Help, I'm a guava!

guitougoal said...

A Oran un franc c'est un franc.

sitting bull said...

Et dans les plaines, un sioux est un sioux.

file said...

mais dans les couers c'est cent per cent?

Offie, have you tried Fruit Support?

guitougoal said...

filou,
how come offy is getting free archeolinguistics private lesson from professor piaget, are we banned from the class?

offsideintahiti said...

As in "Baan Farang" ?

file said...

Pere Gitoo, mon pot, don't you remember?

there were spurious and defensive charges of malsubordination and under-versiveness; the lingo we parlez has no roots in the Archeos, we are free from the Cultural Continuum as Ants, to ever roam in the Semantix Gardens of Perfumed Hyperbole and Herby Hallucophonics

file said...

O, Baan Farang indeed chez vous, Baan Samong?

guitougoal said...

filou,
free as ants?but these formicidae live in organized society ruled by a queen!

file said...

G, it's convenient for all concerned for the Doggess to believe she's the boss...

erratum, 5/11 above should read 5/12 heh!

guitougoal said...

that correction was made de facto,next question,
is pretty boy floyd mayweather going to look pretty after he is done with ricky hutton?

offsideintahiti said...

Offside wishes you a good night. Or morning. Or day. Or whatever you're having.

gg said...

guitou, et al -

everyone is welcome, though the cellar is not all that spacious.

A token fee is customary - most bring along a can of surströmming, thus providing a salty snack when we go upstairs to thrash out a few moot points.

My sibling, Gollum MacGollum Greengrass of that Ilk, will be giving an interesting lecture on Monday.

file said...

more than 30 years and I still haven't got the smell of surströmming out of my marrowbone, gah! I thought it's use was restricted by the Geneva Convention on Chemical Warfare

Tutor GN said...

I was about 100 pages into The Brothers Karamazov before I realiased that there wasn't five of them because Alexander, Alyosha and Alex were all the same person.

mimi said...

Is surstromming like Relentless - evil and ultimately deletorious to one's health? Or perhaps mimi should lapse into the third person singular and wonder if too much strong drink of any kind is bad for mimi?

One can only ask and wait for professors of such things to provide answers.

Personally,I think dragging Russian wordsmiths into any debate could be dangerous. But then here's the debate about "personally" as it is so often used. If I offer an opinion, it is obviously my personal opinion as no-one else can claim to speak or think for me (well some have tried, but best not go there), so the use of the word "personally" is obviously gratuitious. Yet I do it, even knowing that grammatically I think I am committing tortology.

gg said...

mimi -

has Rob Smyth got you hooked on Relentless?

I've never experienced that substance, only read his outpourings (sorely missed!) on the OBO.

Surströmming is, simply, fomented herring. When you open a can, it stinks to high heaven - but the taste is salty and divine.

There are many ways of eating it, but I prefer to take 3 or 4 fillets and make a "tunnbrodsmacka".
Tunnbröd is flat, very thin, cakes of bread. "Macka" is what is known as a "butty" back home in Deep Lancashire.

I use the soft variety of tunnbröd to make a roll with fish fillets, butter, strong Swedish cheese and chopped red onions. Three strong tastes at once, which necessitates plenty of ale and akvavit - Swedish hooch with various herb flavourings
- to swill it down.

A delicious August outdoor meal!

offsideintahiti said...

Hey, it's lunchtime here, I'm drooling now.

Does that stuff travel well?

mimi said...

A bit like roll-tops then?

guitougoal said...

that stuff! I can smell it from here-so bad it's puking up my lunch...

gg said...

offy -

very well! If you save a can for a year, it usually improves. Keep it too long, and you end up with a (very) smelly liquid.

I would recommend sending it by sea, though - the consequences if a can exploded on a plane might be too terrible to contemplate.

I have read about Swedes living in Germany being evicted for opening cans in blocks of flats.

guitou -

have you partaken?

guitougoal said...

gg,
I did, thanks for your concern-That was as bad as reading Arsene's comments on how to help England
national team-

offsideintahiti said...

Frenchman survives Swedish Terrorist Food Attack - Lives to warn the world!

For the full article, please visit the Pakalolo Institute's web site at http://www.southernseasguff.pf

Zephirine said...

Ah, those Karamazov boys - I knew they'd turn up on the blog sooner or later.

Mimi, you're quite right about 'personally' but personally I use it all the time as shorthand for 'this is what I think/do but I'm well aware others may disagree'. Sort of thing.

It sounds as if fomented herring features high on the list of Antisocial Foods of the World.. along with Stilton cheese..

guitougoal said...

zeph.mimi
any culinary recipe suggested by gg can be very indicative of his other-self ,greengrass: a reminding
of dr Jekill-is gg mr hyde? to be continued.

gg said...

Speaking of recipes, I'm looking for the right way to cook hairless dogs: should you first singe them a little,
or just chuck them straight into a boiling cauldron.

"Stuff them!", says Offy, but then again he IS French.

Please help - the dogs next door are driving me and Ms. Greengrass stark raving, and the water will soon be boiling!

file said...

sympathize GG, the dogs here aren't at all cuddly either, we use fireworks

didn't mean to be mean about the Surströmming but it's not just that it smells Rank it's that it smells Overpoweringly Rank for Days afterwards, even if you've left the scene and been decontaminated, as I remember it the taste of the fish was mild and pleasant

Swedish Cheese, bread and red onions with lashings of Ale and Akavit sounds just Fine to me tho, perhaps the hairless dogs should be left to foment in a can for a year first?

btw, here the better hotels all have big No Durian signs outside, but I think Guava are mostly Welcome

guitougoal said...

Novalis said:"every disease is a musical problem.Its cure, a musical solution." guess who need the high tempo medicine?

file said...

Guitou, my baht's on Hatton, you?

guitougoal said...

I never watch any of Hatton's,I can't make a valid pick..
for what I understand it's muscles against finesse-

file said...

well me too, but from what I read it will be a fiery clash of styles, the boxer who is best at their own style will probably win

and like it says in GU, if the pretty boy loses it won't take much from his reputation, perhaps that means he has little reason to win...

munni said...

mimi, personally I think "personally" is a very useful word, especially for those of us who like to refer to ourselves in the first person plural. Makes it clear that we are expressing only our own opinions, and not attempting to speak for anyone else.

By the way, the Hindi word for guava is peru (emphasis on the first syllable). Peru-flavoured ice cream is the absolute best.

ervanp said...

You spray the dogs with a flamable lique,d set them on fire, then quickly throw them into a vat of water to prevent internal damage.*

Then cook as desired...

I suppose.

* Never been tested, not that I know.

PS, Had to read Brothers Karamazov in 5th grade back in Old Country. The mere mention of the title causes intense emotional pain.

offsideintahiti said...

Didn't the Van Der Karamazov brothers play in midfield for PSV Eindhoven in the early 80's?

Zephirine said...

Offie, from what I can discover Dmitri failed a drugs test and was dropped, and Vanya was always arguing with the coach and was sold on to a lesser club. PSV also had problems with the youngest brother Alyosha hanging around crying a lot and praying. But they were a killer combination on their day.

gg said...

exvanp,

I shudder!

Only a person (third) force-fed with Stalinism and the Karamazow geeks - or, perhaps, a Froggy - would consider

a) setting fire to a dog and chucking it into a pot while the poor beast was still alive, and

b) supporting that sorry bunch at the Emirates.

guitougoal said...

- Extra, gg
the dog on fire, reminds me of "something about mary"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H_XZ_Nh8AI
-sorry bunch at the emirates. Relax gg, they are dropping like flies with hamstring problems-
why? because Arsene who knows shit is confused between a football pitch and a race track- You can't play this game at high speed for 90 minutes without developing back tendons problem.
I'll take my hat

ervanp said...

gg,

My comrade, I hear that cooking the dog live preserves a certain texture of the meat.

And they have hamstring problems because they don't stretch.

In Old Country, muscle stretches YOU!!!

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Russian_reversal_(joke)

ervanp said...

And gg, yes, do relax, and tell SAF to relax, too! I'd love that. So would agent Arsene, who is busy killing English football even more by...suggesting Gareth Southgate to the FA. I wonder how he kept a straight face while saying that to Barwick. And how he didn't start laughing at Barwick's 'tache.

Zephirine said...

It's difficult not to laugh at Barwick altogether, he looks and dresses like the bank manager in a 1950s comedy film.

gg said...

Thanks, guitou - just what the taxidermist ordered!

ex -

thank you, too, but I'm so relaxed I'm in danger of sliding off my chair. The only thing that stops me is the fear of getting yellow-carded for diving.

ervanp said...

Anyone, anyone going to watch the boxing tonight? Or are you going to follow Rafa's advice and sleep?

ervanp said...

Arhg!

-Anyone, anyone
+Anyway

I must make a confession. When i played youth club football back in Old Country, I would dive all the time. Not that I knew that it would win me a pen - I just thought it looked dramatic/cool.

*hangs head in shame*

guitougoal said...

ervanp,
I am watching the fight-a ton of hatton vs the feather mayweather, is the beast going to find the beauty?
gg,
sliding off your chair,"but the suit it's too tight":)
zeph,
I love your 50's banker comparison.

Zephirine said...

According to my TV, Hatton has promised his family he'll retire from the ring at 30 and he's 29+ now, so it could even be his last fight - that's a pretty good incentive. But everyone seems to think Mayweather's a better boxer.

ervanp said...

He's a loudmouthed idiot, too.

gg said...

Nightshirt time now, so I'll miss the scrap - but I hope Hatton wins.

He's a very down-to-earth lad from a rough estate just round the corner from where I grew up. Spends his time between fights with his family and his old mates, down the pub playing crib and darts - a throwback, really.

He's a Manchester City fan, yes - but no-one's perfect...

offsideintahiti said...

Oops

guitougoal said...

no-one is perfect indeed,a left hook and Ricky has left the building.

file said...

fair do's, the pretty boy never lost control, brave effort by Ricky but he never had enough smarts to do it, the US commentators on TV here were horrible, simply beastly

guitougoal said...

filou,
very accurate statement on gu from Motm, Hatton had more passion but less technique-
Tom Jones for God save the Queen was the low point
of the evening, from then I knew Ricky didn't have a chance.

gg said...

Hats off to Hatton for showing passion!

Did anyone throw their knickers at Tom Jones?

guitougoal said...

I think Angelina did, Becks couldn't, since he doen't wear the pants anymore and Jude Law had left his trousers in a cab.

Zephirine said...

I saw a post-fight interview with Mayweather, he was very pleasant and polite, came over as a much more genuine guy than in the pre-fight hype. And he only called himself Floyd Mayweather once.

The official UK excuse is that Hatton was fighting above his weight and should really be a Light Welterweight. Shame we can't use that one for other sports huh?

Ebren said...

Hatton's never been a good boxer, a phenomenal fighter - yes, but never a good boxer.

If Floyd wants to step up a weight class he can lose to Calzaghe next bout.

byebyebadman said...

Mayweather's ego flexing is blown all out of proportion, as is Hatton's I'm-just-a-man-of-the-people routine. It's all part of the hype to sell the fight.

As ever with boxing there was a nice moment between the two at the end where they embraced and acknowledged how good a fight it had been.

mimi said...

Apart from the boxing, there was another sporting reason to be up at a ridiculously early hour (for those of us in the UK) today. Yes the 2nd Test match against Sri Lanka starting in Colombo.

My report can be read in the usual place (http://www.thegoogly.com/) and there has to be debate about umpiring decisions.

Interestingly in the post-stumps interview, Mr Vaughan, cited by Zeph (quite rightly) in the original piece here, abandonned the Third Person, and spoke rather well. Maybe he has been reading Pseuds. That would be a RESULT.

mimi said...

I'm so sad Mr Nice Guy did not prevail at the Albert Hall today. Not least because he is Guy Nice Guy but also because of all the jokes that we now may have to make about his other name "Forget".

Still, yesterday we did have a treat with Mansour Bahrami entertaining. I wonder how brilliant his results would have been if the political situation had been different when he was in his prime.

gg said...

bbb,

the word I have (my cousin's daughter
lives just round the corner from where Hatton grew up) is that his man-of-the-people image is true - for what it's worth.

There's a very interesting situation in Middlesbrough right now; it looks like Wenger's vintage
doesn't travel very well...

mimi said...

gg: I was listening to that match before I had to go out - what happened?
I can't check now I;m home cos Ronnie's playing and as always, or mostly, it's nail-biting.

gg said...

mimi -

Boro won, which means that two wannabee invincible sides have become vincibles this weekend.

munni said...

I missed the Boro game, were Arsenal really as shambolic as the papers are saying?

ervanp said...

mimi,

Yes, with the exception of the goal, Arsenal were very poor, BUT 'boro were very good, so...

and gg, his vintage does travel well, it's just that half of it was left in Lahn'

ervanp said...

...or rather munni

mimi said...

I'm guessing that the other ones to lose were Liverpool. God - I wasn't expecting that

guitougoal said...

let's face it with the schedule ahead, our beloved gooners could see manutd take the lead by the end of this year. This means gg will be leading the parade.
I'll get my ear plugs.

ervanp said...

Guito, you are such a pessimist.

Have faith. Senor Cesc and Comrade Hleb will be back for the Chelsea match. And the Dutch bloke will be back soon.

ervanp said...

Oh, and if anyone needs some entertainment, try and watch the highlights of the Atleti - Getafe match. It's hilarious.

mimi said...

If any sportsperson can play the piano as well as James Toseland, I'll eat one of my cats! Blimey - did you see those fingers fly?

munni said...

oh dear, I've just watched the highlights, and missing Cesc and Hleb is no excuse for that. My boy Arsene looked like he couldn't quite believe what he was seeing. Tuncay's goal was very good though, and I admit if I were a fan of anyone else I would have found the whole thing pretty amusing.

offsideintahiti said...

Arsenul

ervanp said...

...I found it somewhat amusing.

gg said...

Dear guitou -

May will do fine, thanks!

Dear mimi -

which cat, and exactly how do you define "sportsperson"?

guitougoal said...

gg,
you 're welcome my friend-but don't order the banners yet, as you know life may be as unpredictable as the weather of the Scottish islands.

Zephirine said...

And there on the front page of the GU sportsblog today is Juan Roman Riquelme, sitting next to Juan Roman Riquelme...

mimi said...

gg: as no-one has suggested any sportsperson of any type, I don't think I'll have to eat any of my cats.

Yet.

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